Hi,

I am an ACCA Part 2 qualified in Karachi and i am siting in next three papers in the coming session. I want to ask you that as we know we have to complete three years practical requirement to become an ACCA member. I just want to know why people go in big4 firms as trainees and complete thier practical requirements there, they don't pay good they take most of our time and we dont get a time for our studies i mean why don't we go in Banks, Investments firms, Industries and other Chartered firms and get a job there and complete our PERT, their pay is better than those big4s.
I am just confused is there a difference b/w a person having three years of experience from big4s and a person having same experience from Banks, investment firms etc . I mean does a person from big4 having same amount of exp. worth more in salary term ?
I also want to know whats the best package an ACCA could get in Pakistan after completing his/her three years of exp.

Thanx,

Dear Afnan Memon,

People prefer articles from Big4 due to reasons given below.

-BIG names are value addition to you for example a small position in a big firm is much better than a Big position in small firm simply speaking post of assisting teacher in CITY school is much better than a principal post in a small school.

-BIG firms give you secondments facility.

-BIG firms are having BIG clients from multi-nationals, banks, Government sectors, Other important public sectors and some well know private sectors.

-In BIG firms trainees are having greater exposure as compared to the trainees of small firms.

-Learning opportunities at Big firms are Big.

And there are are so many other reasons to join Big 4 firms or even 5th or 6th one like at karachi we are having firms choice as.

1)A.F.Ferguson and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of PWC)
2)Taseer Hadi, Khaled and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of KPMG)
3)Ford Rhodes Sidat Hayder and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Ernst and Young)
4)M.Yousaf Adil Saleem and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Deloitte)
5)Anjum, Asim, Shahid, Rehman and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Grant Thornton)
6)Ebrahim and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of BDO Stoy Hayward)

Note: After International Merger of RSM Robson Rhodes(firm at 9th rank as per 2007 ranking) with Grant Thornton it is highly likely that in one or two year it will gain Big 5th status.

You have further asked that why don't we go for Banks and Investment Companies or Consultancy Firms?

Answer is very simple, learning opportunities that can come in your way at Audit firm can’t come in industry our experienced fellows(FCAs/FCCAs) say that one has to start his career from Profession(i.e from Audit Firm).

Although Profession pays much lesser amounts than Industry(like banks, multinationals) but the learning opportunities that can be enjoyed on profession can’t be available in industry.

As far as salary package is concerned it all depends on what fate has decided for you but normally it is some where between 30k to 50k per month in Pakistan rupees however I have seen so many Qualified Members earning between 20k to 30k per month and I have also seen members earning 80k to 90k per month and even much higher amount than these.

Simply Speaking If you have completed your 3 years articles from Big 4 you can then join industry with huge salary packages, but if you started to work in industry at the inception of your career then you can’t reach in a position that can be reached by other members having 3 years experience from Audit Firms.

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

Dear Afnan Memon,

People prefer articles from Big4 due to reasons given below.

-BIG names are value addition to you for example a small position in a big firm is much better than a Big position in small firm simply speaking post of assisting teacher in CITY school is much better than a principal post in a small school.

-BIG firms give you secondments facility.

-BIG firms are having BIG clients from multi-nationals, banks, Government sectors, Other important public sectors and some well know private sectors.

-In BIG firms trainees are having greater exposure as compared to the trainees of small firms.

-Learning opportunities at Big firms are Big.

And there are are so many other reasons to join Big 4 firms or even 5th or 6th one like at karachi we are having firms choice as.

1)A.F.Ferguson and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of PWC)
2)Taseer Hadi, Khaled and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of KPMG)
3)Ford Rhodes Sidat Hayder and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Ernst and Young)
4)M.Yousaf Adil Saleem and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Deloitte)
5)Anjum, Asim, Shahid, Rehman and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of Grant Thornton)
6)Ebrahim and Co. Chartered Accountants(Member firm of BDO Stoy Hayward)

Note: After International Merger of RSM Robson Rhodes(firm at 9th rank as per 2007 ranking) with Grant Thornton it is highly likely that in one or two year it will gain Big 5th status.

You have further asked that why don't we go for Banks and Investment Companies or Consultancy Firms?

Answer is very simple, learning opportunities that can come in your way at Audit firm can’t come in industry our experienced fellows(FCAs/FCCAs) say that one has to start his career from Profession(i.e from Audit Firm).

Although Profession pays much lesser amounts than Industry(like banks, multinationals) but the learning opportunities that can be enjoyed on profession can’t be available in industry.

As far as salary package is concerned it all depends on what fate has decided for you but normally it is some where between 30k to 50k per month in Pakistan rupees however I have seen so many Qualified Members earning between 20k to 30k per month and I have also seen members earning 80k to 90k per month and even much higher amount than these.

Simply Speaking If you have completed your 3 years articles from Big 4 you can then join industry with huge salary packages, but if you started to work in industry at the inception of your career then you can’t reach in a position that can be reached by other members having 3 years experience from Audit Firms.

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

Thanks, Mr. Muhammad Amir

It clears my mind a lot thats exactly the answer i am looking for but the thing u said here about the salary is pretty disappointing i mean lets talk about 50K its not enough and its not w8 i expected i heard ACCA's salary packages are huge, now i am sure of this.

Well thanks again my friend for your reply.

And i also want to know what priority should i have for these firms to join i mean which firm should i go first its seems like A.F.Ferguson and Co is the one i should go first any advice on that matter?? and i also want ask you about which business area i should go to in these big4 which have a good career scope and good salary packages....

Dear Afnan,

As far as salary packages are concerned i have already told you that it depends on what fate has decided for you, so you can't NAOZUBILLAH fight with fate, there are people who are earning in the slab of even 150-200k and there are so many who are earning in the slab of 30 to 40k it all depends on fate.

As far as firms' priority is concerned i will say that AFF is the first choice then KPMG then Ford Rhodes then MYASCo.

Firms usually offer new trainees two areas
1)Audit and Assurance.
2)Financial Services

In my opinion first option is much much better option and one has to start his career with audit sector because learning opportunities at clients from varied background make you perfect.

Second option of financial services is least considered by trainees because in this field you have to do routine tasks for one client and it has no attraction for career seeking people.

I hope this will further clarify my opinion.

Regards,

Muhammad Amir.

Muhammad Amir,

Thanks for that useful bits of information,am just doing part2 Acca, can u plz let me know what do firms require for internships etc,in terms of marks or progress....thanks

Hmm you are right , but i still have one thing to ask you i mean if i go to audit business area i fear that i might end up being an auditor or in the audit field .

I want to aim for senior positions like CFOs, Financial controllers, Finance Directors, etc but for that you should have the relevant experience of at least 8 or 9 yrs .

So all i am saying that if i go to audit area, i might not get out of it and if i want to go to financial management field i might not get in because i dont have that relevant experience to get in.

and ya i am not clear about one thing that u said in your last reply that these firms usually offer me financial services w8 kind of financial services like consultancy or management or accounts i mean explain it to me in detail w8 did i really have to do in financial service area?

Thanks for your continuous response to my questions it really clears my mind , i really appreciate that by the way w8 do u do ? are you an ACCA student ? but you sure have a lot of information

Dear Afnan,

Audit Firms usually offer these services to their clients and they subsequently offer training in following sectors to Trainees.

Audit & Assurance Services.
Taxation Consultancy.
Financial Management & Financial Advisory Services (FASs).
Risk Management Services.
Consultancy Services (IT, Management).

From Financial Services I meant to say that some organisations outsource their Accounting and Information Systems to Audit Firms, however Financial Services does not mean only Accounts role but it is broader term which can be used for Managemnent Consultancy, Tax consultancy and other advisory services for example Audit firms usually advice their clients(Non-Audit Clients) about Hedging techniques and other similar things.




Do you mean if you work for Audit firm for 5 to 8 years, you can't obtain CFO or FD position at any reputable organisatoin?



I am ACCA 'P-Level' student and will Insha-Allah attempt P1 and P2 in June 2008.

Well i don't know thats y i am asking you dis i mean w8 business area shud i choose now that will later serve me in financial leading role in corporate sector??

Dear Afnan Memon,

It is the opinion of our seniors(FCAs, ACAs, ACCAs) that one has to at least complete his 3 years article-ship from Audit Firm this will not only benefit you in obtaining your membership status easily(as most of the audit firms are ACCA Gold approved) but it will also give you exposure to the world of corporate finance for example some audit firms send their trainees for secondments, Audit firms are having clients from varied backgrounds like from Insurance Sector, Banking Sector, Textile Industry, Multi Nationals, Big National Institutions like Chamber Of Commerce, Trade and Industry, Federal Board Of Revenue, Charities and so many clients from Varied Backgrounds, another positive factor to complete Article-ship from Audit firm is that if you want to complete your CA(From ICAP or ICAEW) then you will be already having that relevant experience so you can even apply for CA Membership.

If you decide to join Industry the problems you will face are, Routine Tasks(Although you will gain vast amount of experience from single organization but being an ACCA member this will limit your professional exposure), If in future you want to do CA then you have to start from scratch(i.e. 3 years of Audit Experience), Although initially Non-Audit Organisations will pay you higher amounts but this will be at the expense of future Pay raises because After Audit Experience the salary limit is infinity and it will be at your descrete but in industry pay raise depends on your actions at your organisation and will effectively be at the descrete of management.

I hope this clarifies my opinion.

Regards,

Muhammad Amir

Thanks Mr.Amir for your response .